By Minimum is 0.5 bar as recommended by the supplier/ manufacturer. Then there are insurance issues to consider in the event of an accident. You must log in or register to reply here. A tyre with a load-index of 112 indicates that it is capable of supporting a load of 1120kg at a defined pressure (in Dickybeaus case 80psi/5.5bar), but it stands to reason that, if the ACTUAL load on that tyre is WELL BELOW 1120kg, choosing to inflate the tyre to 80psi will be unnecessary (and will result in a harsh ride and quite possibly uneven tread wear). The most accurate way to find out the recommended tyre pressure is to contact the tyre manufacturer,tell them the axle weights,mgvw and tyre details,then ask them for recommended tyre pressures. Unsure of your car's maximum towing capacity? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. chp commercial vehicle inspection locations; salt protection prayer; helena obituaries helena mt; alastair mactaggart net worth; A series of fortunate events July 20, 2020. its 1992. . Whatever, there is little there that convinces me that, for a reasonably balanced vehicle with axle loadings well within the load index of the tyre, there is a need to run with the tyre-pressures at the filling-threatening maximum. Just thought it interesting that maximum pressures dropped. There will be others too Bridgestone Duravis R624 121/120 Bridgestone Duravis R660 121/120 Comforser CF300 121 / 120 Display as a link instead, Im still on 15inch wheels but with 225/70 R15 tyres which carry a heavier loading. Your link has been automatically embedded. though its perhaps worth mentioning (as the i in the advert highlights) that this archaic rating method has no direct relationship to the number of plies in the tyres construction. Started 4 minutes ago, Copyright Warners Group Publications Plc. As their Cross-Climate tyres are not CP-marked, Michelin will feel 'compelled' to advise that these tyres are not fitted to motor caravans, though they can, of course, be fitted to equivalent weight (or heavier) 'white vans' as that won't conflict with the ETRTO's guidance. fiat ducato camper tyre pressures 225 75r16. The CP-marking was discussed in some depth within this 2014 forum thread, https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/New-tyre-blowout/33821/. Clear editor. Beware! You cannot paste images directly. If your planning on pumping to 80 psi make sure your valves are up to it a lot of tyre centers put in car valves and they burst at these pressures. You'll find many, many posts about ideal tyre pressures on this site and you may find that you don't get a clear answer to your question. Change your phones orientation or view on a larger screen. (Interesting that you mention your military background, as I remember - long ago on the old MMM forum when tyre pressures were being discussed - someone saying something like I drove tanks in the army and I wont alter the tyre pressures shown in my motorhome's handbook unless I get a direct order from the tyre manufacturer that its OK to do so. Fiat Ducato 290 2020 tire sizes: 2.3 MultiJet: 205/70R15, 215/70R15 2.3 MultiJet Maxi: 215/75R16, 225/75R16 3.0 MPI: 205/70R15, 215/70R15 EV: 205/70R15, 215/70R15 2019 Rim Sizes: 615, 616 Thread size: M14x1.5, M16x1.5 Tire pressure: 4.1-5.0 Bolt Pattern: 5118, 5130 Wheel Fasteners: Lug bolts Fiat Ducato 290 2019 tire sizes: At 3500kgs I was only a few kilos away from that limit when loaded for a continental trip. Arrived back home from our trip. I have a link to a 2011 USA Michelin tyre data book which has some useful data but note the USA call 'C' tyres 'LT' for Light Truck. You are using an out of date browser. my problem right now is finding a weighbridge owner that knows how to weigh the van properly after my normal place closed down on retiral of the proprietor. Not to worry, thats just a small link-break as we recently changed our website and member portal. Very slight increase from 20 to 20.25. Under-inflation can be dangerous: for example, for the tyre size 225/70R15 Camping CP, an under-inflation of 0.5 bar/7.2psi. The best you can do without true axle weights is to set the pressures for the maximum allowable axle weights as stated on your VIN plate. All data is from the TyreSafe MH leaflet linked to above. 5/84.496WLL4.2 Don't guess, it's your only contact with the road. The tyre sidewall says that it is only rated at 112 with tyre pressure at 5.5 Bar. What are your individual axle weights when fully loaded ready for a trip and what make and size of tyres do you have fitted? I have looked at all the weight/pressure ratios they give and pondered over changing my pressures in line with Continental data. Despite what Tyresafe recommend, Im going to continue to follow the advice on the tyre sidewall. Drive for at least 20-30 minutes to ensure they have reached operating temperature and check again. of the normal pressure of 4.75 bar for example. The ones on mine when I bought it were normal van tyres, with a max psi of 60 on the sidewall. It would be interesting to see the actual wording applied to "Camping Car" tyres in the ETRTO standards manual - unfortunately I haven't managed (as yet) to find a free download of the same. (a quick review of the contents of the "garage" of most continental 'vans rated at 3500kg MAM should reinforce the view that this is a major problem). Wheel Pattern 5 stud 5x118. As for the ride, well, I don't expect it to be that comfortable - it's a van chassis running at constant high weight. Main Menu. 100 Roanoke, VA 24014 www.L-TEN.org | Tel: (540) 725-3859 Privacy Policy. Derek, I bow to your experience, but I think it is wrong to suggest - as you have done twice - that Continental data should be used to adjust Michelin tyres. Although front axle is not carring the same weight when braking downhill or heavy braking on level the weight transferred to the front axle can temporarily exceed its permitted rating, hence the recommendation to have 5.5 all round. Full Members do not see adverts CLICK HERE for more info. Tyre sizes are 215/75R 16 C on a burstner motorhome weight 5000kg. GWM Ora Standard Range 2023 review: snapshot, Volkswagen Caddy 2023 review: Cargo petrol, Hyundai Santa Fe 2023 review: Active diesel long-term | Part 3, Mazda BT-50 2023 review: XTR long-term | Part 5, Ford Everest 2023 review: Ambiente 4x4 Bi-Turbo - off-road test, Mitsubishi Outlander Plug-in Hybrid EV 2023 review: Exceed - off-road test, Mazda BT-50 SP 2023 review: off-road test, Ford Everest 2023 review: V6 Sport - towing test, Kia EV6 2023 review: GT-Line AWD long-term | Part 2. You may choose to do this, but aside from insurance issues, there may be construction and design differences, and you cannot guarantee that under hot/cold/wet/dry/bumpy/ high speed/low speed/severe braking/cornering etc conditions that the tyre will act the same. HELP - Legal higher tyre pressures for Ducato Maxi 150 on Michelin 225/ We use essential cookies to make this site work, and optional cookies to enhance your experience. When fitting any new tyre size differing from the original equipment, it is the users responsibility to ensure compliance with existing regulations, regarding specifically, the vehicles load and speed capability. 1500 lbs: 1650 lbs: 1790 lbs: 1940 lbs: 2060 lbs: 2190 lbs: 2335 lbs: 2440 lbs: 2560 lbs: 2680 lbs: 2787 lbs: In 2019 Michelins advice for their Agilis Camping tyres was as given here, https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/michelin-agilis-tyre-pressures.193967/. fiat ducato camper tyre pressures 225 75r16 Tyre pressure Ducato base | The Motorhome Fun Club. quotes Maxi Cab maximum permitted axle loads of Front axle: 2100 kg and Rear axle: 2500 kg, so theoretically OK for a motorhome up to 4400kg GVW (2100+2500=4600). Show all. The rear axles could be a little lower than 55 but I would leave them as they are. Fiat Ducato Motorhome Alloys - Original and as new with zero damage. https://www.fiatprofessional.is/model/ducato-conversion/. Company Registered in England no. The back 4 on tag axle were around 55psi. Upload or insert images from URL. I checked the tyre pressures on my Ducato motorhome today. Fiat Ducato - Specs of rims, tires, PCD, offset for each year and generation | Wheel-Size.com Wheel- Size.com The world's largest wheel fitment database. oops.forgot the figures.. What's been recalled and why. - the rear axle of a vehicle where that axle has twin wheels at each end (RA T). Contact our team of experts if you need any help. I do not know whether that advice is still DVSA's approach but it strikes me as being reasonable. FIAT DUCATO PEUGEOT BOXER CITROEN RELAY | Grelly Belgi Unlike VanContact Camper its designated a summer tyre and is not M+S, 3MPSF, nor CP marked. 60 front 65 rear on our van, door plate says 75 all round. fiat ducato camper tyre pressures 225 75r16 Michelins on-line Tyre Safety Guide now advises as follows: Motorhomes require tyres are that are adapted to their conditions of use. The front 2 were 75psi. Fiat ducato | Stuff for Sale - Gumtree Nevertheless it is a genuine camping-car tyre. Started 3 minutes ago, By Totally agree with wak, or the method I used with my previous van was the weighbridge fully loaded and then apply the individual axle weights to this site. One tyre was within a smidge of 3mm on every one the other 3.5mm. ), As the pressure-to-axle-weight graph for a Michelin 225/75 R16 CP 116 camping tyre will closely resemble the graph for a Continental 225/75 R16 CP 116 camping tyre, if a motorhome owner has FAW and RAW data (either from the motorhomes VIN-plate(s) or via a weighbridge) usable pressure-to-weight values can be obtained from Continentals Technical Databook. 2572212 | VAT Registration No. ditto wakk44 above and still keep my fillings, Yep, weighbridge and contact the tyre manufacturer. Tyre pressures Fiat Ducato (Motorhomes and Campervans Forum) 2023 Carsguide Autotrader Media Solutions Pty Ltd. All rights reserved. According to the manual recommended tyre pressures are Front : (215/70 R15 CP) 5.0 bar. That didnt include water in any tank but a full tank of fuel. MICHELIN CROSSCLIMATE CAMPING - Car Tyre | MICHELIN United Kingdom Burstner sovereign 2015 3.5 Tons what is the correct tyre pressures please? No products in the cart. (Obviously you dont HAVE to inflate your motorhomes Michelin tyres beyond the 475kPa shown on the tyres sidewall, even though its near certain that a 5.5bar (550kPa) pressure will be advised in your motorhomes handbooks for both front and rear tyres. You might want to take this up with Michelin as a) if you are maintaining that 475kPa is the maximum pressure your Michelin tyres should be inflated to and b) its probable that Fiat and Burstner will advise that 5.5bar (550kPa) be used front and rear for your motorhomes tyres, theres an obvious conflict. Fiat Ducato Tyre Pressure Motorhome Craic The wording rather supports the theory I've always had; that the tyre manufacturers introduced a tyre with inherently greater capacity (at the raised pressures) than one might be led to believe from the load index in order to compensate for the endemic overloading of motorhomes, particularly the rear axle, thereby attempting to circumvent the reputational damage from having repeated tyre-failure on such vehicles. X 4 Michelin Agilis motorhome tyres for sale. Van Contact 100. Definitely a step in the right direction. Check. fiat ducato camper tyre pressures 225 75r16 You must log in or register to reply here. See further information and configure your preferences. CarsGuide has published 2 expert reviews of the Fiat Ducato. FIAT DUCATO OWNER'S HANDBOOK MANUAL Pdf Download | ManualsLib fiat ducato camper tyre pressures 225 75r16 - l-ten.org Chassis produced by Fiat Professional form the base of motorhomes owned by over 700,000 families who travel in Europe. Tyre Care & Tips . 2572212 | VAT Registration No. All Rights Reserved. Fiat Ducato Motorhome needing camper tyres in Steyning Excellent condition with deep tread. April 17, 2019 in Motorhome Matters. Something to be aware of with Ducatos with their higher pressures is you will often need high pressure tyre valves not the standard car type. How do I know when my car needs new tyres? My Ducato 2.8 JTD tyres are 215/75R16C and the axle loadings are around 1680 kg front and 1740 kg rear. It seems quite a bit different to the advise that Michelin USA give for RV tyres, different weight different pressures and non CP tyres, just the crossclimate though its ratings are the same for CP tyres. Hi all I have a 2002 elnagh marlin 65 motorhome on a 2.8td fiat ducato chassie does anyone know the correct tyre pressures for this van ?? Agilis CrossClimate. Company Registered in England no. 2014 Fiat Ducato - Wheel & Tire Sizes, PCD, Offset and Rims specs This cars tyre air pressure guide chart can in some cases contain actual tyre pressure placards from a Fiat Ducato which can list the space saver tyre pressure and the laden / fully loaded tyre pressure. fiat ducato camper tyre pressures 225 75r16. Fiat Ducato, Find the correct Tyre Pressure My Hankook tyres which were fitted to my MH recomended a pressure of 65 psi at 1900kg on the rear in the US they were rated for 2060kg at the same pressure. . Im mightily confused.com, decided its time to check my pressures on my Fiat Ducato chassis Swift Escape 696. AngelLaHash2023 the standard ,as well as its recommendations relating to motorhome tyres, and now says CP-type tyres have been designed to cater for the higher loads, imposed by motor-caravans, and that "it is strongly recommended that motorcaravans, At replacement, Michelin strongly recommends the fitting of CP tyres to. The only way to find the correct tyre pressures is to load up the m/home as if you were setting out on a trip with all your kit aboard and head for a weighbridge. The air bag pressures are far more problematic than tyre pressures IMO. I'm still confused. dosage acide sulfurique + soude; ptition assemble nationale edf . That is what I concluded some time ago. fiat ducato camper tyre pressures 225 75r16 fiat ducato camper tyre pressures 225 75r16 Yes, it is a mite odd when a 118 load-index tyre is available. If the load index on your new tyre is lower than your previous tyre, then it stands to reason that the (US DOT) pressure marking will also be lower, since the inflation pressure of a tyre (together with its construction) determines its load rating. You can head over to ourhomepage, browse through a ton ofresources. Michelins Agilis Camping tyre in 225/75 R16CP size is evidently marketed with a 116 Q or a 118 R spec, but it appears that the latter is not fitted as orignal equipment to current Ducatos that have a camping-car chassis. Your previous content has been restored. Later on there was argument over whether that pressure recommendation applied only to RWD vehicules (though, with hindsight, it has to be asked why that should ever have been the case). Digital air pumps (the best way to monitor pressures) are common at many large chain petrol stations and will automatically inflate to the number you have entered on their screen. According to the TyreSafe MH leaflet the 5.5 bar pressure ONLY applies to rear tyres when the vehicle is rear wheel drive! View and Download Fiat DUCATO owner's handbook manual online. Always consult your vehicle handbook for your exact recommended pressures. 2,500+ local fitting partners. Mike - Living the dream Adventure B4 dementia!!! . vehicles originally homologated and fitted with CP tyres. We offer a wide variety of tyres for your caravan, campervan or motorhome. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. But the tyre's load-index has tended to exceed a motorhomes highest maximum axle load, as the 109 load-index (2060kg axle load) exceeds the rear axle maximum of 2000kg when 15 wheels with 215/70 R15CP tyres are fitted to a Ducato light chassis. Therefore, before changing the type of tyres, always consult either the vehicle or the tyre manufacturer. With the tyres I have fitted - Continental (225/70 R 15C 112/110) - on my Pilote on a Ducato base and with front axle 1560kg and rear axle 1940kg, confirmed fully laden by a weighbridge, the recommended pressures are 47psi front and 61psi rear. if they are Conti tyres have a scan through this its around page 70++ for CP tyres. This should give you suitable pressures until you can get your MH weighed and calculate more exact pressures. Top-rated Plus seller. In March 2017, the DVSA advised me [the advice is somewhere in a post of mine around that time], " the vehicle should be weighed with a full tank of fuel full tank of water and all that you would normally carry but we would recommend that a tolerance is used to allow for the items you may pick up on route the different foods you may carry etc. https://www.tyresafe.org/check-your-pressures/motorhomes/, https://www.tyresafe.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/motorhome-leaflet.pdf. 245/70R16. Fiat Tyre Pressures, Recommended Tire Pressure Setting | Pure Tyre Vanco Camper. The rear Hankooks which I ran at 65psi, Hankooks recommended for 1900kg, were also evenly worn and had plenty of tread so they are now on the front. This shows the process of building a Ducato-based motorhome, an excellent choice for the vast majority of motorhome owners! Existing users click here to access your account, UCONN,Q707091118,, University of Connecticut, Florida,Q707091118,"#,University of Florida, |MUQ707091118/ Miami University Oxford, Iowa,Q707091118,, University of Iowa, UChicagoQ707091118,,University of Chicago. BUY WITH CONFIDENCE. Youll see that, in the 1st case (FA S), the tyres maximum axle-load capacity of 2500kg is related to an inflation-pressure of 4.75bar, whereas, in the 2nd case (RA S) the 2500kg figure relates to a pressure of 5.5bar. 16" STEEL SPARE WHEEL AND 225/75R16 TYRE FITS FIAT DUCATO (2014-PRESENT DAY) New. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. Even so, on a Maxi chassis with a possible 2500kg permissible rear axle weight, Fiat have gone for the bare minimum by fitting a 116 rated tyre. This says 80 rear but Im sure tyre wall says 69 max!!!! Upon collection, all four tyres were inflated to just under 80psi (5.5bar). Four Season. Tyre & Wheel Balance. But opting out of some of these cookies may have an effect on your browsing experience. My loading is, generally speaking, reasonably even, though I still have some experimentation to be done. They do not signify the tyre manufacturer's pressure requirements for European use, nor should they override specific requirements stipulated by the manufacturer of any vehicle to which the tyre may be fitted. Overloading (even temporarily) or poor vehicle load distribution can cause, premature deterioration of vehicle components and/or tyres and thereby cause, If a change of tyre size is foreseen, a tyre of an equivalent overall diameter, should be used and the original load index and speed symbol should be, respected (speed and load ratings must be equal to or greater than the, original tyres). AngelLaHash2023 fiat ducato camper tyre pressures 225 75r16 - istikhara.us fiat ducato camper tyre pressures 225 75r16 In use: check and adjust if necessary tyre inflation pressures monthly and before. Tyres for Fiat Ducato Vehicles | Tyrepower Australia Source for tire and wheel application fitment data Last Update: Feb. 20, 2023, 5:12 p.m. Tyre Sizes 16 Inch 225/75R16 225/75R16 Tyres Best Sellers All Tyres Tyre price includes Tyre Fitting Wheel Balancing Tubeless Valve Waste Tyre Management FREE Shipping to your selected store GST Radial AT 225/75R16 115Q $205 /EA Qty 4 Select a store to see availability Add to booking View Product Details BUY 3 & GET 4TH TYRE FREE Michelin Camping tyres are made in several size and load ratings including 116Q and 118R for the 225/75 R16 tyre. You must log in or register to reply here. Your Fiat Ducato Owner Handbok will specify an inflation pressure of 5.5bar for your motorhomes front and rear 225/75 R16 CP camping tyres and - if the Laika handbook includes a tyre-pressure recommendation - Id expect it to repeat the Fiat advice. It's also interesting to note "Tyres usually fitted to motor-caravans are of a "light commercial ('C' or CP)" type." RA18 Vantra LT. Carrier. 215/75 R16 112R. JavaScript is disabled. 2572212 | VAT Registration No. Michelin rigidly follows the ETRTO's 2013 advice that includes the statement, "For these reasons, it is strongly recommended that motor-caravans are only fitted with CP-tyres.". 16 Steel spare wheel & 225/75R16 tyre pcd: 5130 Maxi Chassis compatible with Fiat Ducato Motorhome (1998-present day) 134.95 inc VAT Add to basket 16 Steel spare wheel & Michelin Agilis CP 225/75R16CP tyre PCD: 5118 compatible with Fiat Ducato Motorhome (1998-present day) Tyre Pressure Guide: Everything You Need to Know | Cooper Tires I may have that wrong but I've attached (hopefully), Interesting that tyresafe has a calculater that gives different information to the leaflet which I eventually found on their site at. His head bowed,his feet shuffelling he was suitably chastised! Free delivery for many products. Maximum is 3.0 Bar. Rim size and Bolt pattern. Paste as plain text instead, Continental VancoCamper tyres - National Tyres and Autocare You can post now and register later. Paste as plain text instead, Car tyre pressure is measured by calculating the amount of air that has been pumped into the inner lining of your tyre in pounds per square inch (PSI) or BAR pressure. Tyres had been inflated before outbound journey. As the pressure-to-axle-weight graph for a Michelin 225/75 R16 CP 116 camping tyre will closely resemble the graph for a Continental 225/75 R16 CP 116 camping tyre, if a motorhome owner has FAW and RAW data (either from the motorhomes VIN-plate(s) or via a weighbridge) usable pressure-to-weight values can be obtained from Continentals Technical Databook thats available on-line (2017-2018 version here). (11%) is equivalent to an overload of around 100 kg per tyre. He led me round to his storage . I also have a 5 tonne MAM Burstner Tag Axle and due to the layout, I can easily go well over the front axle weight limit of 2,000 Kg. All Rights Reserved. Check tires price. GB 638 3492 15. Yes you are correct re our new motorhome. Advice from Michelin 5.5 bar all round. Duravis R660. The stricture does however specify that the rear axle be single fitment (ie. 2019 Fiat Ducato wheel and tire sizes, bolt pattern and tire pressure. The plate on the body says they should be 79.5psi all round. 16 FULL SIZE STEEL SPARE WHEEL AND 225/75R16 TYRE RIM PCD:5118 BRAND NEW TYRE 121/120 FITTED AND BALANCED PLEASE NOTE: THIS WHEELS ARE 5118 pcd (stud pattern) - but some models are fitted with 5130 pcd to check your stud pattern please measure distance between bolts centre to centre next to it (not across) As with all road vehicles, it is essential that tyres of the correct type be fitted. (Ive several times explained on this forum the historical background that has led to why its now advised that CP-marked tyres be inflated to 5.0bar(F) and 5.5bar when fitted to 15 wheels or 5.5bar (F & R) when fitted to 16 wheels and Im not going to repeat myself.). I'm lucky in that I have a few farming friends who have weighbridges in their yards. The recommendations would have me running the vehicle at 3.2 bar (46 psi) front and 3.3 bar (49 psi) rear. 2020 Fiat Ducato wheel and tire sizes, bolt pattern and tire pressure. It is measured in bars or PSI (pounds per square inch). Continentals recommended pressures give a much more gentle ride and less slipping. Protect tyres from UV radiation, e.g. Run them too low and the sidewalls will craze prematurely . Powered by Invision Community. Your front axle tyre pressures sound about right, I run mine at around 75 psi, anything around 75 to 80 is OK. At that time, they were happy to quote "custom" pressures for both front and rear axle loads, if shared, and with confirmation that this was at the actual fully loaded state. Others might (quite validly) feel differently. LT225/75R16 tire pressure chart with maximum tire load capacity at determined tire inflation levels for LT225/75R16 tires. Fiat ducatto 2.3 - Motorhome Matters - Out & About Live invisible stranding in knitting. Are motorhomers being conned. Michelin used to publish a light-commercial vehicle data booklet containing similar information to Continental's, but I dont think its still freely available to the general public. As I said above, the return advice from Michelin was non existent, and Laika only refer you to Fiat and your tyre manufacturer. For example, Hymer gave me front and rear tyre pressures which are different to those Alko gave me which are different to the ones Michelin gave me which are different to the ones I received when I keyed the axle loadings into: https://www.tyresafe.org/check-your-pressures/motorhomes/. For Light Truck and 44 tyres, use 6psi as a guide, but rough and . It is recommended that a tyre professional is consulted for this. (despite any later recommendation of "CP"), and the implication that the implementation of CP tyres has been particularly oriented towards vehicles with driven rear wheels. GB 638 3492 15. I then gave 2900kg as a rough unladen weight, which brought the pressures down to 47 front and 51 rear. Once youve weighed your Burstner you can seek advice from Michelin about tyre inflation pressures. As I said, it's probably been discussed to death, but I was most interested in the wording of ETRTO's recommendations for Motorcaravan tyres, not some interpretation of it by either individuals or manufacturers. USA e Internacional Verenigd Koninkrijk Duitsland Spanje Frankrijk Itali Nederland Belgi Australi Canada Coachbuilt motorhomes not built on a Citroen/Fiat/Peugeot base have also tended to have C-marked rather than CP-marked tyres (my 2005 Ford-based Hobby for example). The Continental data you attached was sent to me when i was corresponding with them over my previous van, and in any case, their databook is available online. Is this correct or is there some reason the garage / previous owner had them at this pressure. Existing users click here to access your account, https://www.michelinrvtires.com/reference-materials/load-and-inflation-tables/#/, https://www.michelintruck.com/assets/pdf/Truck_Tire_Data_Book_Sept2011.pdf, UCONN,Q707091118,, University of Connecticut, Florida,Q707091118,"#,University of Florida, |MUQ707091118/ Miami University Oxford, Iowa,Q707091118,, University of Iowa, UChicagoQ707091118,,University of Chicago.
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